A Year in Invertebrate Conservation: Successes and the Road Ahead

Listen Now

Guest Information

Scott Black is executive director of the Xerces Society for Invertebrate Conservation, which under his leadership has become the premier invertebrate conservation organization in North America. Scott’s work has led to protection and restoration of habitat on millions of acres of rangelands, forests, and farmland as well as protection for many endangered species. 

Show Notes & Links

In this episode we reflect on the past year's accomplishments and discuss the pressing challenges facing invertebrate conservation. We discuss significant victories such as new policies in Colorado and New Mexico, the expansion of the Bumblebee and Firefly Atlases, and the impactful work of the Butterfly State Report. The episode also highlights the importance of partnerships, community science programs, and policy advocacy in advancing conservation goals. Despite facing setbacks from the current political climate, we emphasize the resilience of Xerces Society's efforts and the vital role of donors and community members in driving positive change.

• Xerces Community Science Programs

Transcript

Matthew: Welcome to Bug Banter with the Xerces Society, where we explore the world of invertebrates and discover how to help these extraordinary animals. If you want to support our work, go to xerces.org/donate.

Rachel: Hi everyone. I'm Rachel Dunham in Missoula, Montana.

Matthew: And I'm Matthew Shepherd in Portland, Oregon.

Rachel: Over the past year, we’ve explored a diversity of invertebrates, the threats they face, and the ways we can help support them. Today, we’ll take a closer look at invertebrate conservation—reflecting on this year’s successes and achievements, as well as the challenges that lie ahead. What victories can we celebrate? And which conservation efforts must continue? What obstacles do we, as invertebrate enthusiasts, still face? Most importantly, what actions can people take right now to make a lasting difference?

Rachel: Who better to talk about this topic than Xerces Society’s executive director, Scott Black. Scott has led the Xerces Society for a quarter century, during which time Xerces has grown and become internationally recognized for its work. Scott himself is a renowned conservationist whose work has led to protection and restoration of habitat on millions of acres of rangelands, forests, and farmland, as well as protection for many endangered species.

Rachel: Welcome back, Scott. We're excited to have you here.

Scott: Thank you, Rachel. Thank you, Matthew. Excited to be here.

Matthew: Yeah, of course. I know we've got some big topics to cover today. Invertebrate conservation is not a small issue when there are so many species, so. You've been involved with this for over 30 years, maybe longer. I'm not quite sure when you really started in, Scott. I know you did some other things before getting into conservation, and more particularly into insects and invertebrates. But over this past year or so, what do you think have been some of the big wins for the bugs—the invertebrates—that we all love?

Scott: Yeah, I think there have been some wins. And I think it's important that we take stock in them. Because we're living in really—as some people might say—interesting times right now, right? And I know a lot of people are feeling down about things. And so I think it's important to really take stock of the wins that are out there. Now, for Xerces, there have been many. There have been, you know, wins with habitat, there's been wins with policy. I mean, a good example is we now have two states that as of two years ago did not have insects as wildlife. They—insects were not considered wildlife, and that means that the agencies—the state wildlife agencies—did not and could not work on them. Colorado and New Mexico now have insect authority is what it's called, so they can focus on them. On top of that, Colorado has hired six staff people just to work on insects and other invertebrates. And cool, rare plants that are pollinated by some of these insects, right. And New Mexico is looking at how they can add to their portfolio so that these animals are managed and protected.

Scott: I could talk in detail about why state agencies are so important, but in short, they are the front line of conservation. And that's a huge success that, really, we wouldn't have thought was possible a few years ago. People are now thinking about these animals in a way that they did not. When I started at Xerces a quarter century ago—I do have to mention there's one person in the room who’s been here longer than me, and that's Matthew—but when I started a quarter century ago, I remember Matthew and I often talking about how nobody—we had to explain what Xerces was. We had to explain what invertebrate conservation was. We had to explain why you should care about invertebrate conservation. And that's all changed. It really has changed. I don't meet many people, that don't understand, at least, that these animals are important for us. They may not be taking action yet, but we don't have to do the long explainers with people's glazed look in their eyes. And I think that is a huge win for where we are now, to where we were 25 years ago.

Matthew: Yeah, no, definitely. I remember going to conferences and meetings, and you'd like walk in and people would be like, “Oh, it's the bug guy.”

Scott: Haha.

Matthew: You know, because they were understandably thinking about eagles, and salmon, and, you know, all these other wonderful wildlife that need assistance. But now you walk in and people are kind of excited to see you there, and wanting to talk about stuff. So, yeah.

Scott: Well now they invite us in. Interestingly, this last week in Portland, it was the Entomological Society of America Conference. And we weren't always that welcome there in a way, right? It was really much more about how you manage insect pests and things. Here, I went to one session, and there were six people involved in this session, and three of them were Xerces staff that were invited to give these talks. And we had a number of other talks by Xerces staff, and our allies throughout the week. So it really has changed. And I think that's the first step—we have a lot more work to do, don't get me wrong—but the first step is that people recognize the importance, and wanna invite you in the room. But to do—give them credit, they have now come full circle. And now it is an important part. So again, that's a win. That's a win.

Matthew: Mm-hmm.

Rachel: I didn't know the history about that conference, so I love the anecdotal stories that both of you have. Having such a long history in invertebrate conservation gives me a lot of hope to where we're gonna be in another quarter of a century. So another win—and we've done a whole podcast on this—is the State of the Butterflies report, which, Scott, we had you and Cheryl Schultz on to talk about that. I think that's really exciting, as well. So it sounds like a lot of good things are happening. And, you know, at Xerces we talk a lot about collaboration and partnership. We don't just do it on our own as an organization—we have a lot of amazing people that we work with. So who are some of the key players to our successes, and why is it important that we have partners and other collaborators?

Scott: Boy, do you have three, four, five, six hours to talk about this?

Matthew: Sure.

Scott: We have so many partners. We have academic partners, we have agency partners, we have farmer partners, we have community science partners, we have Xerces Ambassadors, who are partners. You know, we have all our members and donors who are partners. So there's so many partnerships.

Scott: But to use the State of the Butterflies and the report—which is a roadmap to butterfly recovery that we put out—that's a little microcosm of how we work. And Cheryl's amazing—an amazing partner—she helped make this happen. She got the State of the Butterflies Working Group together that is many people from academia, but also many people from different agencies, Xerces staff, all sitting together to try to understand what information we have, and how we compile it in a way so we understand what's going on with butterflies. And it was really a partnership in that there were 25 or 30 people involved in pulling the first paper together, which was a paper in Science. And in a way, I don't wanna say that paper was a win because, unfortunately, what that paper tells us is that butterflies are declining. Butterflies are declining at pretty steep numbers. We've lost about a fifth of our butterflies out on the landscape in the last 20 years. But that's why Xerces is involved with these groups, because we didn't wanna just have a paper that talked about the problem, we wanted something that talked about all the solutions. And that's why we had this follow-up report that we also worked with Cheryl, Xerces staff, and some other agency and academic folks on to really develop a roadmap for what we can do for butterflies.

Scott: And I think that's where Xerces stands out in these partnerships, especially with our research partners. Research partners, they don't get credit for cooperative conservation, or for conservation. They're often, “Oh, I've gotta teach this number of classes. I gotta publish this many papers.” But when we work with them, we can harness their incredible knowledge to develop tools and projects that actually help people to make the change, so the next time we're doing some assessment, it's going to not be as bad. And that's what our partnerships are really all about. We work with all sorts of people that have—some of them, you know, to use farmers—that don't understand insects at all, but they understand how they can grow food, and they'll work with us to grow food in a way that helps not only feed the world, but helps nature, helps insects, helps pollinators. And that's where these partnerships are so important.

Scott: And so Xerces is a partnership organization. We cannot do this without everybody stepping up. And that's one of my favorite things about Xerces, is to see so many people get really excited about working on these topics.

Matthew: The partnerships, collaboration are so important. I know we were talking about some of the really kind of broad changes—the way that conservation has been embraced by more people, and the awareness of people to—of the importance of insects, and so on. To talk more specifically about Xerces—we want to give listeners a good picture of what we're doing and what we're achieving—over the last year or so, what do you think have been the major growth points or successes from the Xerces work?

Scott: Yeah, so I mean, we've grown in every area. When I talk about Xerces, I talk about our holistic approach. There are many ways that nonprofits work. Some of them do outreach and education, some of them lean more in on research, or some of them might just be habitat. But when I, with your help and others, where we really—when we had the four, five, six, seven, eight people, before we started getting much bigger—really took the approach that we should be working on kind of the—what I call the entire conservation supply chain. So that includes applied research—it's how can we get the information we need to make the decisions that we need to make for the betterment of insect conservation or invertebrate conservation. Then we harness so many—tens of thousands, actually, in the last few years—of what we call community scientists. These people go out and really get amazing information that helps us make conservation decisions, and they often become great advocates for these animals.

Scott: We then do an amazing amount of outreach and education. It's amazing how many people we reach. Our staff reach a lot of people, but one growth area which I'm so excited about is our Xerces Ambassadors. I can't remember, Rachel, how long that was since we've started this, but as of this coming year, we're gonna have 175 people out volunteering their time to educate the public on these important issues. They've reached almost 50,000 people already this year. That's incredible! So that's growth.

Scott: Another area though is our policy work. You know, we have a full-time, director of policy that works with all of the programs on policy, and we work on everything from federal issues, to state, to local issues, changing pesticides regulations, and how much pesticides, and where, and what kinds can be used. In Vermont we are now not using 8,000 pounds of neonicotinoids a year because of a partnership—again, another partnership, this wasn't just Xerces—but working with partners in that state to pass regulations on the use of neonics.

Scott: And then the advocacy. We are willing to—we are science-based, but I've always felt that scientists need to be willing to stand up for what they care about. You know, people talk about, “Oh, you need to be above it all.” Scientists are people. Scientists also know sometimes the best way to move forward to protect the planet, to protect its people, to protect its wildlife, to protect its waters, and we should be speaking up. So it's been a consistent growth curve for the last 25 years, but now that we've hit this bigger level, man, just seems like we're able to do so much.

Matthew: I'll add a shout out to Rachel. You mentioned the Ambassador program. I don’t know how many of our listeners know that—it’s like Rachel's day job is running the Ambassador program. Haha.

Scott: Well, that's her day job, and it was her, I guess we call it, brainchild. Like she came and said, “I've got this idea,” and talked to you about it, and then talked to me about it, and we were both like, “Well, yeah! Can we actually make it work?” And she said, “Well, I think we can.” These are people that can really go into communities and help make change. And that's pretty amazing to see that, and to see how many people they reach, and how many people they are able to change their behavior. And really, when it comes to Xerces, whether it's our applied research, our outreach and education, our policy, it's all about changing people's behavior. It's great to educate people, but unless we can get people to take a step here and there—and it doesn't have to change your whole life—but some steps, we're not gonna see the world in a better place.

Scott: Because if insects are declining, this is—. And I think you've probably had enough people on these podcasts, so I imagine everybody here is—I’m a broken record. But without insects, we're not gonna have birds, we're not gonna have fish, we're not gonna have pollination, we're not gonna have healthy soils. These animals are vitally important. And whenever I say this, I wanna say grizzly bears and Bengal tigers are also incredibly important. So I'm not saying they're more important, but I'm saying they're as important. Because we wouldn't have those animals, especially things like grizzly bears without insects. Grizzly bears eat salmon. Salmon would not make it to the ocean without insects. Their other major food source is berries, and they wouldn't be pollinated without insects. So grizzly bears are an obligate animal to insects—so that's how important this topic is.

Matthew: Yeah, definitely. And one thing that always surprises me with insect conservation is how little we really know about so many of the species out there. Even the ones, I mean, you've mentioned butterflies, and that's one group that we know quite a lot about. But then like bumble bees, or fireflies, for example, it intrigues me how little we know. But also, I know one thing that Xerces—. Could [you] give us a little bit more information about some of the community science programs that we have, on the Bumble Bee Atlas, and the Firefly Atlas, and maybe also touch on the Western Monarch Count work that's been going on for so many years.

Scott: Yeah. So, first I wanna say we have a lot more to learn. I wrote a paper with a professor at the University of [Nevada], Reno in 2019 called "We Know Enough to Act Now.” And for a long time some researchers have been stymied kind of by the fact that they worried we didn't have enough information to move forward on conservation. We do. We need more information, and that additional information is gonna really help us do conservation better, and hone our conservation so it's really successful, but always like to point out: we should not be waiting for more data to do this.

Scott: That said, our community science programs are just another kind of amazing part of what Xerces does. And I wanna give a shout out to Sarina Jepsen, who really is the architect of our community science programs. She was an earlier addition when we had seven or eight people. And an early idea of hers was we do need more information—how do we get that information? And community science came out of that, with some other people. The Bumble Bee Atlas has really closed gaps in understanding where bumble bees are doing well, and where they're not. So just a little bit about the Atlas. We have a Bumble Bee Watch that anybody can just go take a picture anywhere. But the Bumble Bee Atlas actually guides people so that we get data across different regions. For instance, in Washington, you know, it's a grid cell pattern, and you adopt a grid cell, and you go out, and you do surveys a couple times a year, and then send that information in. So it's not just information from around Seattle, it's information from areas that we wouldn't have. It's amazing how this has truly helped us really understand this fauna. And we are now covering 20 states. It's 1,669,120 square miles is what our Atlases cover.

Scott: Similarly, we've got our Firefly Atlas, and as you might expect, the Firefly Atlas is a little bit, in some ways, I would say, more challenging. Bumble bees, you go out, often bumble bees are out in nice weather, the sun's shining. And that's the difference—when you're doing fireflies, the sun is not shining. Haha. You're out there at night. Fireflies are much harder to identify. But we are training incredible people who are willing to go out at night, willing to try to help us understand these animals. And, you know, although not, I would say the square miles of it aren't as big as [the] Bumble Bee [Atlas], it's just as important, and it's really leading to change. We are taking information from our Firefly Atlas and working with several state parks that we're calling Firefly Refuges. And these state parks, because we've been able to gather information at their sites, and then develop management plans for them, they are taking action to protect fireflies at those sites. And so that's what all of our community science work is leading towards. It's not, again, just capturing data. It's how can we get the data we need to answer the questions we need, so that we can do conservation.

Scott: And then monarchs. We've had a long running—even before both of us got here—community science program—although it's grown a lot—called the Monarch Thanksgiving Count in California. That has been running consistently since 1997. And it's been fueled by volunteers who are willing to go out the week before and after Thanksgiving and count monarchs at overwintering sites. Again, that information has been vital for us to realize how important these sites are. These sites are the most important part of monarch conservation in the West. We have to protect overwintering sites. And this has given us the information we have. We've gone from dozens of volunteers in 1997 to 400—more than 400 volunteers—this last year. And monitoring almost 200 sites. It’s truly astounding.

Scott: And then the last thing I wanna say about community sciences is: community science gets us information. And that's why I think most people do community science. But I see way beyond that benefit. Because again, these are the people willing to go and stand up at a city council meeting to tell how important the management of these overwintering sites are. They're willing to write letters to try to pass bills that will protect, bumble bees from pesticides. They're willing to go to their HOA and say, “Hey, can we plant plants for these pollinators?” These become our advocates. And, you know, the data is really vital, but I think what people end up doing afterwards may be just as consequential.

Matthew: Yeah, no, I think people who are giving that much time to learn about these insects, very much are dedicated to them, and become great advocates. The other thing that—I mean, obviously this knowledge leads to action, and a lot of that is policy related. And, you know, internally, Xerces, we have different teams of people working on pollinator conservation—the pesticide reduction, endangered species, and so on. But policy is one that it's only in the last year or so that we've really had dedicated staff on. And so I know it's also something that's close to your heart because you had been sort of the policy lead. Now we have Rosemary Malfi who is taking over that role. And so we have someone who's working on more than we used to be able to. Are there any particular policy actions that Rosemary, and you, and others are working on that you feel are more significant or more important?

Scott: Yeah. First to go back and give a little credit where credit is due, we always, at Xerces, have done policy. Back in the day, you've done some policy. We always had policy as part of our portfolio. Sarina Jepsen has been key in helping grow our Endangered Species Act policy. And Aimée Code, who's our director of pesticide reduction program, has been key at doing policy work. But we all breathed a sigh of relief when we got Rosemary because we were all doing this amongst everything else we had to do. We knew it was important that we were making room for it—and we still do, we're all still a team—but we now have somebody who can really spearhead this policy.

Scott: So, the policy work is really cool. And Rosemary has helped us really take this to the next level along, with Aimée, along with Sarina, along with other staff in different states where we are working on things. So we supported over 20 state-level policy bills this year, and five of them passed. You know, I mentioned the bill on neonics in Vermont, but we had another bill in Connecticut that was—prohibits the use of neonics on turf grass. So it's gonna eliminate their use on over 300,000 acres. I mentioned our work in Colorado and New Mexico to get insect authority, which is really, really vital if we want our state agencies to be able to actually take action for these animals. We've helped states add invertebrates as what are called Species of Greatest Conservation Need in 27 states to their state wildlife action plans. Those are states that often do have authority, but they often don't have the information on these animals to add them to their state list so that then they can be represented in their conservation efforts.

Scott: We protected a really endangered freshwater mussel called the western ridged mussel from aerial pesticide application here in Oregon. We're also pushing back—and this is something that I think we'll talk about probably in a little bit, but, unfortunately, our federal government is much less of a partner now than they were in the past. They—conservation is not a priority, and in many cases it's their adversary. And so we're pushing back on things like we had over 600 scientists sign a letter to try to save the USGS Bee Lab. Why is that important? We don't have all the information we need on bees, and the USGS—which is a federal agency that focuses on everything from geology to conservation—it was a key player, and is a key player in understanding what's going on with bees. And we have to push back to stop this federal—these federal agencies from being stripped so that they cannot do their jobs. So we are doing really positive forward-looking policy, but we're also speaking out when we have to about issues of great importance.

Scott: One other growth thing that people may not know about is the growth in our freshwater mussel program. Our freshwater mussel program started really small—started by gathering information, started by understanding what's going on with these animals. And this year we were able to relocate more than 32,000 mussels out of the way of projects that would have destroyed them and their habitat. And some of these freshwater mussels live 50, 70, 80 years. So it's truly amazing. The growth in every program. And we start with: what information do we need? Now, how can we use that through for everything else? And it really works.

Rachel: Well, before we segue into challenges, I wanna thank you for your kind words about the Ambassador program. The reason it works so well is because of our Ambassadors—they're incredible—but also our staff being so supportive, and having so many experts and knowledge, and being a science-based organization. So I appreciate both of you for building such a strong organization. It was pretty easy and seamless for me to step in and build this program, and it only works because everybody works together with that. I also wanna give a shout out to Bee City USA, that's run by my colleague, Laura Rost, and the affiliates who are doing amazing work on the ground, and community, and sort of mimicking what Xerces does with education, and policy, and getting habitat put in the ground. So that's an amazing program, as well. It's really astounding to just hear all this, Scott, and I'm grateful to be a part of it because it's really amazing all the work that's been done in this past year.

Scott: Before you ask the next question then, because you brought up Bee City—Laura is amazing—this year we added 23 additional Bee Cities, which is incredible. And in last year's report—because we get report[s] on 2024 in 2025—our Bee Cities reached 690,000 people with conservation messaging. So yeah, it just—you got me going there, Rachel. You can't talk about Bee City without me chiming in.

Rachel: No, it's good. I knew that was coming, so I had prepared for it. Haha.

Scott: Haha.

Rachel: You touched on this briefly, but I think we do need to sort of talk about the elephant in the room, and inevitable questions. We pivot to challenges facing invertebrates in the current political climate. Have there been any changes this past year under the new administration? You touched on a few things, but what does this look like going forward, especially for Xerces, and invertebrate conservation as a whole?

Scott: Yeah. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Well, for those of you who don't know, we had an election last year that changed things a lot. We went from an administration that, although was never perfect and maybe wasn't doing enough, but was doing a lot, to an administration who is adversarial to conservation. Unfortunately, it's not been a good year. They have cut funding for so many conservation-oriented programs. You know, everything from the science to the on-the-ground conservation. This is conservation on our public lands, it's conservation on farms, it's conservation pretty much everywhere. It's clean air, clean water—it's kind of like a war on conservation.

Scott: For how that affects Xerces, is that— we talked about these partnerships. The number one impact is we have so many fewer people at federal agencies to work with anymore. Between the almost seemingly forced retirements and layoffs—the amazing people, that some of them we'd worked with for two decades are no longer at these agencies. It is the loss of a huge brain trust of people who cared about conservation. Because whatever you think about any of these administrations over the past decades, there were thousands of people who worked in these agencies, who did have a passion for protecting the earth and protecting its people. And many, many of those are gone. So our partnerships have frayed at the federal level, and that's really unfortunate because we had a lot going on. The butterfly roadmap and the Science paper is a prime example. Several people that worked on that, they haven't left, but they've been moved to other places where they're not gonna be working on butterfly or pollinator conservation anymore. So it's a big loss.

Scott: The other loss is loss of funding. Many groups have lost federal funding, and federal funding has been really important for nonprofits. People don't really realize that, but the federal government, across the board, gives about 10 times as much money to—for nonprofits to do, not just conservation, but social issues, you know, housing, different things than private foundations do. So when you're cutting that a lot, that has a major, major impact. As we know, the biggest impacts have been on loss of funding for, you know, U-S-A-I-D and programs overseas, but we've also seen a lot of loss of funding here. And Xerces is seeing that, and we’ll see more over the next couple years. We are going to have fewer federal partners to work with, and we're going to have less federal funding to do our jobs. And so that's just something that we're managing, and going to have to face over the next two to three years.

Rachel: Thank you for answering that question. I know it's a difficult one.

Scott: Yeah, and I don't like to leave it on the downside. This may sound trite, and I don't want it to, but adversity can lead to innovation. And Xerces is really looking at where we go within the context of this current federal administration. And we, I believe, can be an incredibly vital organization for maintaining and increasing the work we do. While we hope that either this administration, or the next, kind of comes to their senses on how important climate change is, and biodiversity loss is, and all of those things.

Scott: So Xerces has a bright future. We still have so many partners. We still have a lot of states who are stepping up. And because the federal government has abdicated responsibility, many states are actually trying to do even more, and we're working with a lot of those states. We have cities across the country—how many these Bee Cities do we have? 468 or something—Bee Cities and Campuses that are stepping up to do this work. We have people—we have tens or hundreds of thousands of people who are willing to step up. And I've heard from so many of our supporters, donors, and partners that the value we have is allowing people to do this work at whatever level they're at. Whether it's improving their garden, or rethinking pesticides on their farm, or working with the city to improve their natural area that's close to their home. Going and passing a policy—you know, we have lots of those people at the state, or city, or county level. I'm hearing that what Xerces brings to this is actually helping them get through their days, because they're able to be—continue to be successful. They continue to do something of value. And I think that's where Xerces needs to be at this moment. And I think that this is an opportunity to take this big audience that we've already now got and increase its size, and increase its focus on conservation in whatever you do in your own life. So it's both daunting, but I am excited to think about how we place ourselves in a way that helps all of the people that we work with, and the many more we wanna work with to do good conservation—we can do that. We can continue to do that, and we will continue to do that.

Scott: And this is where I wanna give a shout out to, specifically to our members and donors, because as we lose federal funding, it's our members and donors that keep us strong. This year, people have already started stepping up. We're hopeful that more will step up and that we can really continue this work.

Scott: I'm still kind of amazed. I have been doing this a long time—working with nonprofits more than 30 years—and I still remember the first donation I got at my tiny little nonprofit in Colorado, where somebody gave us a few hundred bucks. And I was just so amazed and thankful that somebody would give me money to do what I felt was important, and that I loved. And I still to this day, am amazed and thankful to all of the donors—that could give anywhere—and give to Xerces. But I do want us end by saying give anywhere, as well. Nonprofits are struggling across the world, the United States, for sure. There are so many issues of importance. So think about giving, think about what's most important to you and give to that cause. If it's Xerces, thank you so much. If it's something else, thank you so much, as well, because this is a time when we really need all hands—you know, we use that almost too much, but it certainly seems like right now is a good time to use it—we need all hands on deck, whether you're doing community science, volunteering, you know, at the food bank, donating to a nonprofit. Whatever you do, do it because it's even more important, I think, than it was in the past.

Matthew: Yeah. Thank you for that. That sort of perfectly segues into what was gonna be my next question. I think it was you, Scott, who suggested that at one point we maybe should start calling ourselves the Solutions People, because that's what we're endlessly seeking is solutions to the world's problems. So what do you think are maybe like the top three actions that somebody could take to help insects?

Scott: Yeah. We know that data really shows that if we do certain things, we increase populations of insects, we increase diversity of insects, we increase what's called biomass—that's the weight of insects—we increase resilience, so that these animals can weather things like climate change or turbulent weather because of that. So, that's the key that I want everybody to set on is if you do it, they will come. And I find that really, really important for people to remember. We can look at these broad trends, right? But you can do something in your own landscape that will be incredibly meaningful. Now, I may have a few more than three, simply because we've got a broad society out there—not everybody has a landscape to work with. So I'm gonna do three for people that have a landscape to work with, and then I'm gonna do a couple more for people that might not.

Scott: Restoring your property or the property you manage with native plants is key to the survival of insects. And it doesn't matter whether you have a 10-foot by 10-foot plot, or even just flower boxes, or you manage a big, giant farm, or you manage a natural area. Think about the plants that are there, keep the ones that are good, augment with plants that will help these animals —clear as that. If you're interested in butterflies and other pollinators, think about flowering plants from the spring until the fall. But also remember host plants for butterflies that might not even flower at all. So think about a good broad palette of native plants. It doesn't have to all be native. I'm looking out at my yard right now. It's mostly native, but, you know, my kids just—last kid just went off to college a couple years ago, but there's a little plaid of grass where we used to play. I still have a couple hybrid tea roses that are beautiful, that we bring in and make fragrance. So you don't have to do everything, just start somewhere.

Scott: The second thing is don't use pesticides. Just don't use pesticides if you cannot at all help it. And in a yard situation, you don't need them. I've never used pesticides in all the years that I've been a gardener, and I've had incredibly good gardens. So you just don't need them, so don't use them.

Scott: Think about where these animals live. So think about you—you've gotta have a house, or you've got a roof over your head, anyway, to keep off the weather and all that. Butterflies, bees, beetles, all of these animals need to have a place to live. And that can be by leaving some messiness in your yard. Over in the corners even, sticks and brush that you leave, rock walls that are not tended. If you have a sparse yard, you might see little holes in it, and those are native bees.

Scott: So you know that, those are the three, but there's four because then let your neighbors know. Get a sign that says you've got pollinator habitat, and it's amazing how many people you'll be able to talk to. I've got all of Xerces signs out there, and lately I've been talking a lot about Leave the Leaves. So it's—people come by the yard and see this really interesting yard that doesn't look like other people's yard, and go, “What's up there?” And I'm willing to actually have that conversation.

Scott: But if you don't have a yard there's things you can do. I talked about becoming a community scientist. We all need to lower our carbon footprint. Climate change is a key issue, and yes, governments really need to do a lot more, but we can do some ourselves. Do you need to fly to that conference or can you do a Zoom? Do you need to have meat seven days a week, or can you stop having meat some of those days? Because meat, especially industrial beef, especially if it comes from Brazil, but even from the United States, is a real output of climate change causing gases. So, buy sustainable ag. If you can afford to buy organic, buy organic or sustainable. You know, just talk to people about the importance of this stuff. So, you don't even need to have a yard to help—there are many, many ways.

Rachel: Well, thank you for all of those action items that people can take. And I appreciate the differentiation, as well, for folks that don't have a yard, or don't have access to any lands that they can make a difference on. And that's what I love about invertebrate conservation is there is something for everybody, which is really wonderful.

Rachel: Scott, this has been great. And we're gonna end on two new questions because you've been on Bug Banter a few times before, and I'm really excited and curious of what your answer is—but what has been the most rewarding part of your career?

Scott: It's interesting because I love nature, I love insects, and all wildlife, but I think it's really the people. I have gotten to work with startlingly knowledgeable, intelligent, driven, caring, thoughtful people. Hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds of them. And they give me hope because they're kind, they're wanting to do good things, and they're out there trying to do them. Yeah, it's an easy one. I could say, “Oh, whatever thing I've protected,” or, “The nature we've preserved.” But I think really it goes back to the people. They're amazing, and it's how we're going to—it's really how we're gonna make change is by having, you know, people who care. And there are a lot of people who care. In all sectors, whether farmers, gardeners, just everyday people that care about these topics.

Matthew: Yeah, I would completely agree with that, Scott. And I think there are times when everything feels particularly heavy, you know, when maybe something didn't turn out how you hoped, and it's been the people around you that—what bolster your morale and keep it going, so.

Scott: That's right.

Matthew: Yeah. So the very last question we have for you as we wrap this up is: what is your most memorable wildlife experience?

Scott: So there are many I could choose from, and I'm gonna do one briefly that's not invertebrate, and one that is. One of my most memorables is I was coming back from a really long—I'd been out in the back country for many days. I was hiking with a, still a pretty big backpack, and I was getting close to my camper where I was just gonna camp for the night at the roadside. And it was getting dusk, and I was walking through a wetland, and luckily, I thought I saw something in the gloom move. And I got about eight feet away from a moose. Who raised its head and—literally eight feet from me—and just looked me in the eye. Haha. And I went—I can't say—we would not have a good rating for this podcast if I said what I probably thought or said, right? And I just backed up, and just kept walking backwards going, “I am so sorry. I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry.” And that was the only trail out, so I went back and camped for the night because I was like, “I am not going until it's the light of day.” Because unless you've been close to a moose, you can't really realize how large they truly are. 

Scott: But probably my—or I really think my most incredible wildlife experience with insects is with the bogong moth. You know, I've been to see monarchs. It's incredible, I've seen so many different insect things. But I was able to climb up a mountain in Australia where they have this migratory moth called a bogong moth. And I'm part of a group trying to understand its decline and push for its conservation. We all got up there—researchers, conservationists, some indigenous folks from Australia—and watched this incredible sunset—because it's the tallest mountain in mainland Australia. And as the sun just finally sank, and there was just a little red in the sky, tens of thousands of moths just started rising up from under all of the rocks. And I'm not exaggerating, tens of thousands of moths. And as it got darker, and darker, and darker, they were just swirling, kind of like a, I don't know, like a tornado all around. And you had to actually keep your mouth closed or you would end up eating one. And then they flew off, and it was done. They're—they think they're going out to get nectar and pollen, because of course they're moths, they're nighttime insects.

Scott: And it was just something that I never—even when being told about it, I was like, “Well, yeah, that sounds pretty cool.” But to just be in the midst of that many animals—that many really important animals. These are vital animals for so much wildlife that eat them, including pygmy shrews. They were really important for indigenous peoples. But to just see that on this mountain there were that many—. Could have been—nobody—it's hard to count them, of course, right? Because they're just coming up—but it could have been hundreds of—hundred thousand, we don't know. But it certainly was tens of thousands. And then I got to walk back down—and this isn't part of the wildlife experience—but in the complete dark with the best stars I've ever seen. And I looked over, and I was like, “That's weird. Is there like some city over there?” And somebody says, “No, that's the Southern Lights.” Which I hadn't—I think of the Northern Lights. I was like, “Oh.” So, what a fabulous trip. So that is my number one.

Matthew: Yeah, understandably so.

Rachel: Well, my cheeks hurt from smiling so much. Haha. I love hearing the answers to these questions. I felt like I was there, so thank you so much. I love your perspective. I think you've said this to me a couple times being at Xerces where I've said like, “Oh it's such a problem.” You're like, “Nothing is a problem, it's just a challenge and an opportunity for growth or innovation.” And I always think about that. I'm like, “Nope.” Gotta spin it positive that this is a chance for us to think differently, and shift, and work smarter. So I appreciate that, and it speaks to why Xerces is so successful. So I appreciate your leadership, and it's just always nice to have you on Bug Banter. So, until next time, Scott, thank you so much.

Scott: Well, it's one of my favorite things to do, to come on Bug Banter because I always enjoy it.

Rachel: Bug Banter is brought to you by the Xerces Society, a donor-based nonprofit that is working to protect insects and other invertebrates—the life that sustains us.

Rachel: If you are already a donor, thank you so much. If you want to support our work, go to xerces.org/donate. For information about this podcast or for show notes, go to xerces.org/bugbanter.